The use of avatars for musicians has come back into the news recently after comedian/host Kim Shin Young and fans of PLAVE clashed over her characterization of them, resulting in an apology from her, which led to Korean netizens shitting on PLAVE. Then Pann Choa unleashed the international takes on PLAVE with an array of posts about the issue, so the discourse is about as toxic as its been in a minute.
Now I hate to disappoint yet again, but I see some of the dreaded ‘nuance’ word on this issue. To start, I think it’s a reasonable expectation for a host to do research on something they don’t understand. Doing stuff like asking how they could be on a radio program and what not seems rather silly when they’ve literally already done it, and since she’s talked about them before in a dismissive manner, she’s had time to literally Google if she actually wanted to know.
PLAVE have done audio-only stuff with GOT7’s Youngjae’s Best Friend and Wendy’s Youngstreet, where they might even go in person and do stuff that way.
🦦 you took off your shirt right when you get here
noah: cause we sweat a lot
🦦 just finished workout?
noah: no dance practice
yejun: we did this & that
🦦 for something new? i see~ i wish it's viewable radio, it's so refreshing i don't know where to lookpic.twitter.com/8zJhSvaoYx
Or if there’s video, then they can do it like Idol Radio.
If there’s no mocap setup or facial tracking setup, then it’s literally just looking at a screen where they’re filming in a studio where this is a setup available.
if someone asks how some of the interviews with plv work we can show them this now as an example yay https://t.co/CjQ9CDkMT0 pic.twitter.com/vHvPfXHpXX
— 𝕮𝖆𝖗𝖔𝖑𝖞𝖓 | 𝕮𝖆𝖑𝖎𝖌𝖔 𝕻𝖙.1 (@yejunsky) February 15, 2025Seems clear that Kim Shin Young was treating PLAVE in a way that she likely wouldn’t subject another idol group to, and I have to laugh at other K-pop fans claiming she did absolutely nothing that wasn’t typical when they’d flip their shit over any minor slight that happened to their fave as well. But that would be just another K-pop fandom issue.
Speaking of, I also don’t think PLAVE’s fandom going apeshit on anybody who doesn’t understand what they’re doing or doesn’t like it is going to help matters. Is it unfair that they are subject to disrespect that others wouldn’t be? Sure, but unfortunately that’s part of being first to the scene (mainstream at least), it’s going to happen, and alienating people by calling for their jobs of industry vets isn’t going to help win anybody over in the long-run. As it is, their fandom is extra defensive due to commonly dealing with dismissive sentiments, which makes for a potentially toxic disaster for fandoms, and I’d hate to see things continue to head down that path.
I dunno, I think both sides can and should do better.
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In general, though, seeing this VTuber discourse play out over and over again as somebody who isn’t inherently weirded out by a real musician using an avatar has been bizarre. From even loosely following J-pop over the years, seeing K-pop fans practically aghast at this kind of stuff is … funny? They weirdly just feel out of touch.
Radio shows, music programs, video calls, in-person handshake events, virtual and physical concerts? All been done, and some of the have been done for a while. Whether it’s an avatar, VTuber, or even vocaloid stuff. Hell, ask your K-pop faves, some of them might be familiar with how it works.
And quite frankly, a lot of them would beg these artists for a feature.
I dunno, I don’t even blink when I see a song/album is by a virtual artist anymore while sorting through J-pop. It’s just a thing.
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On that note, I saw a lot of people trashing the concept of virtual artists itself because it allows people to able to hide behind avatars. But in my view this misses the forest for the trees, as there are many using the medium (especially women) because they don’t want to deal with the harsh judgment (from places like Pann Choa, ironically enough) that comes from having your face and what not put out there daily. You’d think people critical of the traditional system and scrutiny that comes with it would be more open to alternative routes, but alas.
Anyway, this post is less about PLAVE and their fans, and more about arguing the value in the aforementioned medium, especially since a lot of the critiques of it (fake, cringe, deranged, etc) have been said about K-pop as well. Not saying anybody has to like it or that it will ever be anything but niche on the world stage, but I guess I see it more as an opportunity to hear from musicians and vocalists that we may not have had the opportunity to under traditional restrictions and societal pressures of celebrity.
Anyway, stan Ado.
And others I don’t have the time to post.
English (US) · 